New member -- likely 28TE owner -- nervous!

[RWP]

Greetings:

This is a terrific site and has been very helpful during the boat shopping process.

We are under contract on a 1998 28' TE in SW Florida at what appears to be a very favorable price, with the sale pending survey and sea trial. What I'm nervous about is the Peninsular engine. Replaced under warranty in 2000, the engine now has around 700 hours. I have read many archived posts on this motor...most reporting satisfactory service as long as the engine is maintained properly and not driven like a rented mule. However, an engine surveyor who I am likely to hire has turned my knees to jelly...reigniting the fears that had receded following my reading here. Can anyone add any additional perspective -- either reassurance or confirmation of my worry -- especially anyone who has lived with this engine for well over 1000 hours? A really good deal on this boat starts to look marginal if I have to replace the Peninsular with a Yanmar or Cummins or similar in two or three more seasons...as this engine surveyer says is likely to be the case. I can add that the owner started the engine in my presence and it popped off almost immediately. It idled smoothly (for a diesel!) with a modicum of smoke. I am not hard on my toys and I am diligent about maintenance. Also, how difficult is it to find parts for these Peninsular engines? Thanks in advance for any observations.

Previous boats have included a 1979 Marine Trader 40 (Ford Lehmans -- bullet proof!) and a 1997 37' Sea Ray Sundancer (454 gas guzzling V8s but NO TEAK anywhere).

[Legacy]

Hopefully the survey will work out well for you. I owned an Albin 28 with the Peninsular for nearly 8 years and liked it so much I bought an Albin 35. I put 1200 hours on my Peninsular and it was still running well when I sold it. Over the years I had a few hiccups but nothing too expensive or difficult to solve. If you have any concerns about the engine, give the guys at Peninsular a call, they are very approachable these days. The older engines like the one I had, had some problems (early to mid 90s) but I believe the newer ones are spot on and if well maintained will have a long life beyond 1000 hours. That said, what color smoke was the engine making? Also, when it was started, was the engine cold or could it have been warmed up before you arrived? Just be prudent. Good luck and keep us posted.

Rick

[RWP]

The smoke was bluish white, I think...looked pretty much like the smoke my Ford Lehmans used to emit on startup. The engine was definitely cold, as I had been poking around in the engine box earlier and there was no sign of warmth. Thanks for the reassuring comments. I think I will go ahead with having an engine survey done as well. Even though I know the guy will give it a bad report, he will be able to tell me if he thinks that self-destruction is imminent or if it is a few hours down the road.

[Legacy]

Absolutely get the engine surveyed. When I bought my current Albin, I hired a Cummins mechanic to survey theengines and the genset and I learned a ton. Good luck and keep us posted.

RIck

[zinbaad]

I picked up my 31 last November & I was real nervous. I had it surveyed & decided to have the oil & tranny fluids analized. Yes it took an extra week to get it done but I like to sleep at night.
Although some might say it is useless unless you have a previous sample checked, I felt I would have a base line to start & if there was any water or antifreeze in oil I would know. Since I have two 315's I had some comparisons as to the wear. It is not that expensive (just Google oil analisis) get the kit & copper, chromium, aluminum, iron & more are all tested for excess. Very informative report included. The peace of mind was worth it to me. Good Luck
And of course Welcome to the Albin Owners Forum

[jcollins]

RWP,
Welcome to the group and welcome to Albins.
Most mechanics you talk to will tell you to run away from that engine. Probably because that is what they have heard from other folks and never had any real life experiences. A Peninsular mechanic will tell you it's a good engine. Not as popular as the Yanmar but less expensive to maintain. It was a lower cost alternative to the Yanmar. That's very true. It's louder than a Yanmar. Several thousand hours should be reasonable life expectancy for any pleasure boat diesel engine. I am in my 4th season and have just under 1000 hours. No problems yet. I should also mention mine is a 1995. That is one of the "bad" years.
I am confident that any problems were resolved prior to 2000.

Keep searching the board for more information. Review the recent posts from Katmak.
There is a rendezvous in Punta Gorda in March.

[RWP]

Thanks for all the observations, folks. I hope to arrange the hull and engine surveys for next week -- and they should tell the story. I'm less troubled by the engine after reading these comments, and I also had a rather reassuring conversation with the Peninsular people in CA yesterday as well. Parts availability should not be much of a problem.

By the way, the engine surveyor wants $130 for the oil analysis. I'm going to see if I can diplomatically suggest buying my own kit from West Marine or somebody.

It would be fun to go to the Punta Gorda rendezvous; not sure the iming will work for us this year.

Incidentally, my real name is Bob. Our official residence is St. Petersburg, FL and we return to our former home town, Minneapolis, during the summer to escape the heat and storms.

[jleonard]

You can get a sample kit from Blackstone Labs online for about $20. It includes the extractor, bottle, shipping package and report. I'm sure there are other labs online as well.
Oil needs to be warm/hot. Make sure the tube is not sucking off the bottom most especially if you take a sample from the tranny (don't ask how I know this).

EDIT. I just went to their site and it's $22.50 for the test. The kit is free and they don't charge you until you send in the oil. Score!!

[Albinflorida]

How did the survey go? I've sold many of these boats with the Peninsular and have had mixed results. The biggest negative to most is how incredible loud these engines are compared to the Yanmar. Good luck with her.

[jcollins]

How did the survey go? I've sold many of these boats with the Peninsular and have had mixed results. The biggest negative to most is how incredible loud these engines are compared to the Yanmar. Good luck with her.

What? I can't hear 'ya!

[RWP]

The sea trial had to be cut short because the engine began pumping oil. (There's a fair amount of this in the "maintenance" section, which I won't repeat.) But the update is this: the yard that replaced the faulty seal on the crankshaft pulley/timing cover last year determined that the leak was not coming from there, but from the front of the oil pan. They found that the engine was about 2 to 4 quarts over-filled...and the theory is that under the pressure of being somewhat bow-up at cruise, the crank shaft was striking the oil hard, forcing it out. They drew the oil level down to normal and on retest found that the leak was significantly less. They then dropped the pan, redid the RTV seal (whatever that is) and retightened the oil pan bolts. A third sea trial at all speeds and boat attitudes revealed no leaks. So...the mystery is...where did all the extra oil come from? Worst case scenario, according to Peninsular, is that diesel leaked into the oil...a sign of a serious crack somewhere. The yard says no way...that much diesel in the oil would be apparent to the trained eye. The owner keeps the boat on a lift behind his house...and another theory is that he dumped in the oil based on an incorrect dipstick reading. The Case of the Extra Oil...could be a great Agatha Christie novel if the dear old girl were still among us. They engine survey also uncovered the need to inspect the exhaust elbow (OK) and replace an aluminum gizmo that connect the exhaust elbow to the turbo. This stuff is all pretty much Chinese to me. The hull survey wasn't bad...no major defects...but still a few grand worth of stuff that needs fixing, though, and for which we are definitely seeking a price adjustment. The yard is still waiting on a couple of engine parts, and once they arrive and are installed, the next step will be for my engine surveyor to return and complete the sea trial. If satisfactory, we'll see. Like I said earlier, if I don't have to repower it, this boat can be a good deal. If I do have to repower it, I want the price low enough so I'm not spending a ridiculous amount. The Yanmar distributor in St. Petersburg tells me to budget $30K, including labor. Repowering with a new 2009 long block Peninsular would be about 1/3 that. The Peninsular people clearly believe they have a good product that has been maligned unfairly. The conclusion I draw from the anecdotal evidence I can gather is that although it is a "lighter" duty engine, the Peninsular can be very satisfactory if not driven too hard. Of course one can only generalize so far about brands; at the end of the day, it's always the specific engine that matters. The owner...and how the boat is treated and maintained...is ultimately more important than the brand pedigree. More next week, I'm sure! Thanks for all the comments and feedback. I'm working as hard as I can to come to a reasonable, logical conclusion about this prospective purchase...not an easy task considering that the moment the average man steps aboard a boat, his IQ drops by 50%.

[RicM]

There is an extensive thread (started by me) abut overfilling oil in the Yanmar engine. It takes a fair amount of time to get all the oil drained down to the pan when refilling an engine this size. If you leave the dipstick in the pipe it seals the system, making it hard for the oil to drop down and fill up the dipstick pipe. The result is that you fill to the line, then come back the next day and it's overfilled.

[Mariner]

Fuel in the oil would be immediately apparent to the trained eye, but ONLY if it was a signfigant amount, and if the eye looking at it happens to truly be "trained".

Fuel in the oil would DEFINITELY show up on an oil analasys report. I would suggest moving forward with the analasys, even if it does cost you $150. Better to overpay for that than to overpay for the boat.

Overfilling the oil in a marine diesel engine is as common as...well... marine diesels. MANY owners overfill their oil. Many also underfill. On our boat, the "full" line on the dipstick is just a hand-made scratch mark. I have no idea who put it there, but there is nothing official looking about it at all. In fact, I'm not even sure it really is the full line. It might just have been scratched by the previous owner as it wobbled around the engine compartment. However, there are no other marks on the stick whatsoever, so that's what I go by. There is a distinct possibility that I am overfilling or underfilling the oil. I shall never know.

I do know that Peninsulars have gotten a bad rap. Whether it is deserved or not, is not my area of expertise. I know that none of the members here have had any problems that I would characterize as being abnormal for a marine diesel engine installed in a pleasurecraft.

[jleonard]

I repowered an old Mainship with a new Cummins 6BTA. Part of the installation manual is a procedure for "calibrating" the dip stick. I comes with no mark on it. You have to fill with the proper amount, scribe a "MIN" line, add a quart, then scribe a "MAX" line.
Were those lines go depends on the installation angle. Overfill what is good for that instralation and the excess will come out via the crancase breather tube.
My lines looked like obvious scribe lines, not factory made lines.
I need to repeat this on my old Albin with 4000 hours on the diesel. The factory marks are not accurate. In this case fill to "full" and the engine will puke oil until it looses approx 3/4 quart. Then it will stay there.

[RWP]

Here is the latest, as of 3/25:

I ended up buying the boat at a significantly reduced price, after the Peninsular engine failed on its second sea trial with the engine surveyor aboard. The seller contracted with the yard to fix the engine. The mechanics diagnosed a broken valve, so they pulled the head on that side of the engine and sent it to a machine shop. Upon reinstallation, however, there was heavy smoking and blow-by starting at about 1500 rpm. The yard advised against further repair attempts. At this point, the boat was mine...and after some deliberation, I decided to repower it with a brand new 315 hp Yanmar. Yes, a new Peninsular would have been about half the price, but having been burned before, I have become pretty gun shy...though I respect the positive experiences reported by the Peninsular owners on this site. At some point, it became a simple matter of confidence -- and in this economic environment, part of the equation also involved the size, strength, repuatation, and parts support network of the giant Yanmar brand compared to the much smaller Peninsular firm. I also gave some thought to Cummins, but it seems that the majority of 28TEs are equipped with Yanmars. Anyway, the engine has been ordered and we anticipate taking delivery of the boat in about a month. We are keeping fingers and toes crossed that our ownership experience will be much more positive from then on! Hopefully we will have a reliable machine for our use and one that will be more marketable come the day we eventually decide to sell. I will provide further updates as warranted. Thanks again for all the observations.